The Unfundamental Conversion

The Duggar Family and ATI

February 4th, 2013 | Posted by Lana Hope in Book Reviews | Homeschool | Patriarchy


I recently read through the book The Duggars: 20 and Counting. I remember meeting the Duggars  at an ATI homeschool conference about 15 years ago.  Because I grew up under the same program the Duggars are involved in, there were a lot of ATI lines that jumped out at me in the book. I am talking blatant Bill Gothard, ATI, IBLP lines. (If you don’t know the acronym, they are fancy words for Gothard’s Christian programs and seminars.) Here they go.

1. The book refers to the Children’s Institute songs. The Children’s Institute is a children’s program run by Bill Gothard, the founder of ATI. Jinger Duggar alludes to the theme song, the Ten Unchangeables, on page 7 of the book.

Q: How do you feel about what other people may think or say about your family? Have you heard anything that is particularly hurtful?

A: Our parents have taught us to work at doing right and not worry what others think of us. Yes, sometimes we hear some negative and potentially hurtful comments. But when those negative comments come, we are reminded to accept the ten unchangeable things about ourselves that make each person a unique individual: (1) the way God made us, (2) our parents, (3) our brothers and sisters, (4) our nationality, (5) our mental capacity, (6) our time in history, (7) our gender, (8) our birth order and placement in our family, (9) the fact that we grow older as the years pass, and (10) the fact that life is a race against time and the best way to use that time is to serve God and others.

– Jinger, age fourteen.

To listen to this song, see this youtube video. Literally, Jinger is repeating the song.


2. The book mentions sexual teachings for married couples. Bill Gothard himself is not married, but he teaches that we should still follow the Old Testament’s teaching on sexual abstinence. Here is what Jim Bob Duggar says.

Q: Do you use any birth control method at all, including abstinence or the “rhythm” method?

A: An interesting thing happens when you have seventeen-going-on-eighteen children. Completely strangers start asking you about your birth control practices! It’s okay! By now, we’re used to it. Here’s what we can tell you: In addition to living by the principles in the New Testament, we have learned that some Old Testament practices, including recommended times of sexual abstinence, are still helpful today. For example, one such teaching tells couples to abstain from sex for seven specific days during a woman’s menstrual cycle. Another passage says to abstain for forty days after the birth of a boy and eighty days after the birth of a girl. These teachings are no law for New Testament Christians; but we’ve found them to be a healthy practice, both for our bodies and for our relationship. I (Michelle) feel cherished, knowing that Jim Bob is following these guidelines simply because he wants to do what’s best for me and for our marriage. Plus, after we take these pauses in our sexual life, our coming back together is always a very special time.

This was taught in Gothard’s Advance Training Seminar. See the Research in Principles of Life Advance Seminar Textbook.

At his Advanced Seminars in 1983, Gothard introduced sex regulations based upon Old Testament commands. Under the session titled “Six Purposes, Principles, and Keys To Fulfillment In The Marriage Relationship,” he told married couples to abstain from physical relations: 1. During the wife’s menstrual cycle; 2. Seven days after the cycles; 3. 40 days after the birth of a son; 4. 80 days after the birth of a daughter; and 5. The evening prior to worship.

3. Circumcision must be done on the 8th day and circumcision is a command, a must. As seen on page 88, the Duggars asked a doctor-friend to come back to their home and circumcision the baby on the 8th day.

4. The girl’s wear only dresses. This is true in other quiverfull families, but in ATI, wearing only dresses is a requirement albeit one many break.  The Duggars say they do it so people are attracted to their faces and “character” rather than body. Character is everything in the ATI world, and one of the reasons Gothard has the dresses rule.

5. The children are taught that obedience is to be “instant, cheerful, thorough, and unconditional.” See page 115 and 116. This is Bill Gothard verbatim. Oh, and they must say yes ma’am or yes sir, Mrs. Duggar says, because they must verbally commit to their obedience.  Read also their obedience game. When I attended the Children’s Institute conferences, they always emphasized verbal commitments, and we had to raise our hands in the air and promise to follow the character traits.

6. The parents weave character training into everything, literally everything.  Obeying the Holy Spirit and attentiveness are even woven into potty training, for example. They learn initiative by cooking, generosity by playing. The children even get consequences if they get distracted and accidentally forget to put the trash all the way to the sidewalk (say put it down by a tree, and forget to go pick it back up); in ATI land, there is never a good justification for tripping up on a character trait. The Duggars mention 49 character traits regularly in the book. Those come from the Wisdom Booklets in ATI. In ATI, it is expected to spend a minimum of 5 years (more like the upwards of 7) going through each character trait and lessons, and when finished, families are to repeat the books. Bill Gothard’s team influenced a curriculum for public school, called Character First. Every character definition, every character study mentioned in the book, all of it, comes from the ATI program.

7. Mr. Duggar attributes their businesses success to Jim Sammon’s Financial Freedom program. Jim Sammon works along with Bill Gothard. His financial points are actually taught in the Wisdom Booklets.  When I went through the wisdom booklets as a little girl, I learned the same lessons Mr. Duggar talks about — not profiting from others misfortunes, no debt, and no business partners. Yes, financial lessons are taught in 2nd and third grade.

8. Prison Outreach. This is an outreach of Bill Gothard and big in the quivefull movement in order to bring character into the prisons. You can read up on it here. Not surprising that both the Kellers and Duggars participate in prison ministry.

9. The book interweaves anger management lessons. The kids mention learning to manage anger, and so does the parents. These include lessons such as lowering the voice instead of raising it. Stop and just forgiving. Bill Gothard has a whole seminar section for managing anger using these techniques.

10.The Duggars study law, medicine, character, etc. I remember those days well. When I was in the 3rd grade, my subjects were law, Greek, medicine, and finances. Then I did grammar and math on the side. Talk about a bizarre education. The Duggar book features the kids studying these altogether at the same table. How can high school kids possibly grasp law at the same level as a 5 year old? Answer: it doesn’t matter as long as everyone gets the character traits memorized. The law and medicine lessons are merely lessons on character. Finances? that too. Generosity, honesty, attentiveness: yes, these are character traits needed for successful businesses, but they are also needed to be successful people.

11. The Duggars sing songs, write down scriptures, and remind themselves of character traits to manage their family conflicts. This may not seem like a problem until you lived it, until you’ve been there. For example, on page 145 Joseph, age 13 says, “What I felt like doing was being angry and telling him to never touch my stuff again. But I memorized the Bible lessons.” Then Joseph mentions how Jesus ran an extra mile. That verse is found in Matthew 5:41; ATI has a whole wisdom booklet/character trait month on that verse. Jinger just sings a song. Dad just takes a deep breath and forgives. Everyone just remembers what God says. In the ATI world, you can’t be human with real emotions. If you are upset, all you have to do is sing the Patience Song, sing the Gratefulness Song, sing the Orderliness Song, sing the Smile Song; just lower your voice (a odd way of saying bury your emotions); just repeat the scripture verses and character traits; just meditate on Matthew 5 more and more. In fact, the Patience Song song even starts out, “when I’m in a hurry and I start to worry……I start to sing this song.” That is the ATI solution to managing a house where everyone is human: sing songs, write down scripture and character traits (a zillion times over).

12. Finally, no list is complete without mentioning the large family. This, of course, is a quiverfull thing, but nonetheless, the Duggars mention that they started attending the ATI conferences from the time the eldest was 4, which meant they attended the required seminars to join before then. So for the Duggars, ATI teaching on large families played a huge role in the number of children they have.

My Reaction

I saw myself in the Duggar’s story so much. I didn’t have 18 siblings by any means, but the character lessons, the rules, the setting ourselves apart, the Young Earth Creationism, the financial lessons, the pro-life politics, the conferences, the wisdom booklets, everything was all too familiar. In and of itself, forgiving people and reminding yourself to be cheerful isn’t bad, but let me assure you, as one who lived this same program, that the kind of child-rearing the Duggar’s are describing is not healthy, and it sends out clear messages that if your upset or angry, that something is wrong with you, with you. Because if you just remembered the song, or the character trait, you wouldn’t have that struggle.

I want to urge people to understand that the Duggars’ system of child-rearing is spiritual abuse. It’s not funny, cute, and it’s certainly not worthy of TV entertainment.  It’s not healthy. The ATI curriculum is a system that wounds children who have emotions and fail to live up to the holiness standard, all in the name of God. Not only does this god despise public education, peer pressure, rock music, cabbage patch dolls, eating pork, trolls, birth control, and people who wear normal clothes, but this god also expects little children to master character traits, for teens to parent younger siblings while always feeling “grateful,” showing “initiative,” and “patience,” and for children to stuff their frustration and emotions because that’s “self-control.” Let me assure you: this is spiritual abuse.

I’ve had friends tell me they watch the Duggars’ show because its funny to watch. “I don’t believe that stuff,” they say. What they don’t understand is that by laughing at the show, they are laughing at children who are being spiritually abused, and by using these children as their entertainment, they are encouraging this none sense to spread around.

As for the Duggars themselves, I wish to approach them with empathy as well. I am one of these daughters. I am still struggling to believe God doesn’t expect me just to smile.  I had a sign that said, “stop, you aren’t all dressed until you wear a smile” above my bedroom light switch for years (assignment from the ATI wisdom booklets). “Just smile” is engrained in my brain. I failed the 49 character lessons of my childhood. At the Children’s Institute when I was 11, they asked me to promise to be attentive. I had been trying for 4 years to master that trait. I didn’t want to make another verbal commitment. I knew I would fail.  So I didn’t raise my hand; I refused to promise. I couldn’t bear the pain of letting God down. I know in my heart the Duggar kids share in that feeling of letting God down. I was – and still am — the Duggar girls.

And I  have empathy toward the parents. They wanted to raise kids set apart, and they didn’t know. They didn’t understand. The character traits sounded like the answer. People today just lack self-control. So the Duggars thought they could do it. They could teach their kids this starting from birth, starting from one blanket lesson, starting from potty training.  So at night, the preschoolers would repeat the character traits, and the kids would grow up and somehow be okay. It sounded so good.

I wish it were that easy. I wish character training in the name of God didn’t hurt so bad.

But it does.

To read more on my experiences in this extreme conservative program, click here.

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  • I can’t tell you how much it bothers me when children are taught songs that tell them normal emotions are bad and that there’s only one right way to feel. When I have kids, I’m going to teach them songs like this instead:

    “Sometimes I get mad and mean, sometimes I feel happy, and when I want to cry, I do.” Truer words were never spoken. At least not in Sunday School songs.

  • LOVE IT. And I was told that Sesame street was bad.

    • Sesame Street bad? 🙁 Sesame Street is like my all time favo show! How could ANYone not love Sesame Street?

      • something about someone being gay, I was told.

        • The song does have the line “I’ve got one daddy; I’ve got two”. lol Though considering it was the early 80s, it was probably talking about Dad + Mom’s second husband.

  • Genger trine baxter


  • Julie

    I’m curious. Are you saying all of the things that you listed are bad to teach kids? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think an overemphasis on character, particularly because they usually link that to appearances, is unhealthy. But is using techniques to avoid conflict and manage anger actually suppressing emotion?

    I have this thing I do where I breathe several times if I feel particularly frustrated. I am not stuffing an emotion, but what I usually find is that my reason to be angry is misplaced (then I have empathy and no longer feel anger towards the other person). Can I kid get this? I don’t know, but I think teaching kids meditative techniques (which can be singing, counting, breathing, or yeah, even scripture, although I would tend to tread lighter on that because it can cause guilt easily if it doesn’t work). Anyway, teaching kids to meditate before bursting out in emotion seems… wise?

    Even the “lower your voice” ideal. I remember that – and it can be SO annoying, but I’ve also observed something. When I am in a heated argument with someone and our voices start to raise, I can feel the intensity and tension raise as well. If I can become aware of that and simply lower my voice, like clockwork the intensity drops back down. Not only that, but people can actually reason better. Not so emotionally fueled, there’s better understanding for the different POVs.

    Curious what you think. I know you and dad are both very “LET ME EXPRESS MYSELF,” so maybe it is best to let you go for it. I certainly don’t see anything wrong with intense emotions (as long as they don’t result in harmful actions of course).

    • Jewels, I don’t know. There’s only so much a little kid can take without thinking they should not express their emotions. I was deeply hurt that mom always told me my emotions were bad, and that I was just a prophet who needed to keep my emotions under control. (which is still an oxymoron to me. Its a spiritual gifts, but I can’t use it? btw, I don’t think whatever I was going through was a spiritual gift, but she claimed that one, not me.)

      However, I did start this thing with A. You know how he’s always getting upset over things around him that concern nothing of him? So I started shaking my body whenever he takes on other people’s emotions. Then say “shake it off”; it seems to be working.

      The thing that struck me about the Duggars book is it seemed fake. They didn’t say, sometimes the kids get upset, and they just stay upset. nope, nope. They just recite the scripture verse. I also think character needs to come within rather than from without. The best thing we can teach kids is to follow their conscious. That is the guide from within. Does that make sense?

      • Wendy

        I think you feel victimized by your upbringing so you’re passing your emotions off onto people you don’t even know. You might just be a bit immature…

        You had problems with these teachings (I’ve never even heard of ATI but I was taught some of these things in the Christian school I attended and had no problems in my life because of them) and it sounds like your parents didn’t really listen to you, which couldn’t have helped, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for other people who listen to their children, support their feelings, etc. I know for a fact that the Bible says one of the most important things we’re supposed to teach our children is self control and obedience. It doesn’t say we can’t have/feel emotions and it doesn’t say we shouldn’t ever show emotions, so I would never force a kid to be robot-like, BUT freaking out about every little thing is ridiculous and not conducive to learning, loving, or living a great life.

        If, according to you, teaching anger management is “spiritual abuse”, then we better be building a BUNCH more prisons. I guess Annie the musical/movie is trying to advocate this same “spiritual abuse” too since she sings “You’re Never Fully Dressed Without a Smile”, right? Or did Bill Gothard (Who I also never heard about until I was reading Yahoo today and read all the NASTY comments about how horrible it is that the Duggar girls and boys aren’t allowed to go slutting around before marriage) write that song for the musical? It’s something that’s been said before, in other words. And is it really such a bad thing to present yourself to the world as a happy person even though sometimes you’re not in the best mood? It can actually help produce a better mood and it’ll definitely make other people around you happier. Always being the victim will just get you victimized because the creepos out there are looking for people with those problems so they can take advantage of them easier.

        Nothing in what you wrote showed me that these teachings are bad for anyone. Some people might internalize every little thing in their lives and feel like failures and like every bad thing is their fault but it’s probably because they DO have somewhat abusive parents, either emotionally or physically, because anger management and a thankful attitude is not emotionally damaging. Obedience is something we ALL want from our kids, and if more people practiced self control this world would be a MUCH better place to live. Now I did also read that this Bill Gothard guy is a lech, but that doesn’t mean that character training is evil in any way, as long as understanding and loving parents are teaching it without deliberately provoking guilt. If we are saved, meaning we believe what Jesus did for us, we shouldn’t feel guilty about being human, but that’s no reason to stop trying to be better people by leaning towards more Christlike rather than worldly behavior.

        • I think the problem here is that these were a bunch of hard-and-fast rules, not balanced behaviors or general principles. They sound very legalistic to me, which would naturally lead to abuse of the rules, sometimes even in parents who have good intentions.

          • Thanks for dropping by. I checked out your blog. Cool stuff. Feel free to drop related links to your posts anytime.

          • Thank you! That means so much to me! It feels wonderful to hear that someone likes it. 🙂

        • Eugene Knowen

          Courtney you heretical hoar make sure your husband gets that picture of you off of social media. you are a disgrace to your poor, abused kids.

    • Eugene Knowen

      Wendy go perm your hair and breed a litter of girls for Uncle bill gothard to molest. his cu;t is being sued by 5 victims. you don’t know who we know, who we work with, or the victims we see in life. Go pick put another troll account to use.

  • Pingback: Bill Gothard Encouraged The Buddy System | Wide Open Ground()

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  • tess

    Funny that they teach you to not take advantage of people’s misfortunes to make money. That’s an admirable quality but clearly not the Duggar way. Jim Bob owns the car lot that Josh pretends to run (a non-family member with the last name Chapman actually runs it). It advertises usurious interest rates for financing for overpriced clunkers. When people can’t pay those rates on their clunker JD swoops in with his tow truck and takes away the car so it can be sold to the next gullible sucker. THe Duggars could charge more reasonable prices for their cars and keep them in better condition. They could charge more reasonable rates that are not in the double digits. But, they don’t. They don’t have a way for someone struggling to work out a better payment plan. While this is how most used car dealerships work you would think that they would at least slightly try to live by the principles they so proudly proclaim on television.

    • Lana

      Thanks for explain. It’s business, but agree with Josh especially. Do you know their lot personally?

      • Eugene Knowen

        I know a lot about the Duggars personally. They are not well liked at all in their hometown.

  • Anonymous

    It is NOT a commandment to circumcise!!! In fact, Paul said over and over again in the New Testament how circumcision SHOULD NOT be done. Not just that it doesn’t have to be done, but that doing it is directly denying the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. When Jesus was crucified, that made circumcision unnecessary because He had given the ultimate blood sacrifice for our sins, His life! Check this out:

    • Suzzie

      oh wow you all are scary. Circumcise for the male & females health reason. Period. The bible is not going to tell me if I should or shouldn’t circumcise my boy child.

      • Anonymous

        Be afraid, Suzzie. Be very afraid. There are thousands more like me who are against infant circumcision. There are no “health reasons” to circumcise. It isn’t your penis. It isn’t your choice. You don’t own your child, nor anything on him. PERIOD.

      • Anonymous

        This is from Brother K (below): “If our nation was strapping down baby girls, penetrating & ripping open their vaginas with metal tools, crushing & slashing their vaginas with other shiny tools, would we use a polite euphemism for the horror?… I admire women who stand up for our nation’s sons… the other women who turn away from the horror, or minimize it… one question, how do YOU live with yourselves? ” If you’d like more links, Suzzie, I’m sure I can get a lot more intactivist friends to straighten you out on your very wrong thinking with some more links and commentary explaining why you are wrong. We have researched circumcision, some of us (like Brother K), have been educating the public for years on the horrors of circumcision and the harm it causes. Brother K has been protesting circumcision since the early 70s. He knows a lot more than you do. Open your mind to the truth. Stop being a blind sheep and stop following cultural traditions without question like a programmed robot. Question circumcision.

      • Emily

        Circumcise the female??? What??? I am personally against circumcision for both male and female, but circumcision of the female has ZERO health benefits whatsoever. Educate yourself Suzzie.

        • Anonymous

          ZERO health benefits for either sex, Emily. Yes, Suzzie desperately needs an education.

          • Lana Hope

            Some people post on blogs and say terrible things to get an arrousal out of people. No one in the 21st century should think what she said. Way too much information out there.

      • WOW bunch of evil people here, Duggers are blessed, you can tell by the wicked haters that attack them

        • Duggars are f’ed up

          The Duggars are f***ed up! Aside from the VERY UNCHRISTIAN and ANTI-biblical practice of circumcision of their male babies, they practice “blanket training”. Do you know what that is? No? Then, allow me to enlighten you. They put their barely crawling babies on a blanket or play mat and entice them to crawl over to them. When the baby obeys and crawls over to them, they smack it with a ruler or some similar object! They do this so that they can go visiting with a baby and not have the baby disrupting their visit. So, you see, they are some VERY f***ed up, confused individuals!

        • They’re not evil, they have good intentions just like you. The author especially is trying to talk about her own harmful experiences and warn others. They are trying to help people, not attack anyone. That is not evil intent at all.

        • Eugene Knowen

          The Duggars are a cursed, legalistic, satanic, money worshipping group of cult followers whose god is bill gothard. You are the wicked one for defending this cancer to Christianity.

      • Sylvia Joy Swan Zakusilov

        Actually Suzzie, NO medical organization in the world recommends infant circumcision. Every body part has a purpose and a function- there is zero benefit to amputating healthy functional tissue from a nonconsenting baby. It is also very painful and carries risk of infection and bleeding, plus permanently removes 20,000+ nerve endings and half of the most sensitive penile skin.

      • Eugene Knowen

        You are the scary one. What health reason is there to circumcise a female child?

  • Lisa

    It is NOT a commandment to circumcise!!! In fact, in the New Testament, Paul clearly states over and over again that circumcision is NOT to be done. Not just that it “shouldn’t” be done, but that it is NOT to be done. He says (among other things) that to do circumcision is directly denying the blood sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ! When Jesus died on the cross, His blood sacrifice negated any need for circumcision! Check this out:

    • I agree.Thanks for the link. I hope people check it out.

      • Anonymous

        Thank you, Lana! Finally, someone on here with some sense!

  • If our nation was strapping down baby girls, penetrating & ripping open their vaginas with metal tools, crushing & slashing their vaginas with other shiny tools, would we use a polite euphemism for the horror?… I admire women who stand up for our nation’s sons… the other women who turn away from the horror, or minimize it… one question, how do YOU live with yourselves?

  • Wendy

    ….why is it so bad to teach character in prisons? Seriously…how is that even close to a bad thing?!

    • Eugene Knowen

      Because the person behind the “character” training in this case is a known, admitted pedophile who uses political connections to make a fortune to spread his filth and demonology tho those trapped behind bars. Bill gothard is a rapist, a pedophile, a freak, a creep, a liar, and an abomination unto the Lord. He regards himself as a deity. He is vile, wicked, and headed straight to Hel!! unless he changes his disgusting, perverted ways.

  • Dina

    What’s the deal with not eating pork? Do the iblp teachings allow widows to remarry? Just questions I’ve had for a while. Thanks!

    • Lana Hope

      The Bible says that eatin pork is unclean. Here is some scriptures.

      The answer to your other question is yes and no. Yes, they say it is wrong to remarry, but keep in mind that since IbLP is grassroots and is not a church, they can’t make people not remarry, unless they are families who work for them. It’s like the TV and dresses only rule. Of all the families I knew in ATI as a kid, only 1 out of 10 religiously only wore dresses. I wore mostly dresses, but not only dresses (especially in high school I stopped wearing dresses). Similarly most families I knew would occasionally watch TV. My favorite family was the family who would watch nothing but Fox news because news is not TV! Here is a link from IBLP on divorce and remarriage.

    • Eugene Knowen

      They follow a legalism based on what bill pedo gothard tells them to follow based loosely on Leviticus.

  • Sylvia Joy Swan Zakusilov

    Christians are NOT to circumcise their baby boys!!! In fact, there are as many benefits to it as doing animal sacrifices- ZERO! Jesus’s blood was the ONLY sacrifice needed!!
    God created the male body perfectly with NO mistakes!!

    “For you created my inmost being. You knit me together in my mother’s
    womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your
    works are wonderful, I know this full well.” -Psalm 139:13-14

    “But in fact, God has arranged the parts of the body, every one of them, just as he wants them to be.” -1 Cor 12:18

    “Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you be circumcised, Christ will be of no advantage to you.” -Gal 5:2

    “And I testify again to every male who receives circumcision, that he is
    in debt to keep the whole Law. You who do so have been severed from
    Christ…you have fallen from grace.” -Gal 5:3

    “For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, it makes no difference to
    God whether we are circumcised or not circumcised. What is important is
    faith expressing itself in love.” -Gal 5:6

    “But if I still proclaim circumcision…then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.” -Gal 5:11

    “I wish that those who are pushing you to do so would mutilate themselves!” -Gal 5:12

    “And even those who advocate circumcision don’t really keep the whole
    law. They only want you to be circumcised so they can brag about it and
    claim you as their disciples.” -Gal 6:13

    “For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision matters. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.” -Gal 6:15

    “For there are many who rebel against right teaching; they engage in
    useless talk and deceive people. This is especially true of those who
    insist on circumcision for salvation. They must be silenced. By their
    wrong teaching, they have already turned whole families away from the
    truth. Such teachers only want your money” -Titus 1:10-11

    “Watch out for those wicked men – dangerous dogs, I call them – who say
    you must be circumcised. Beware of the evil doers. Beware of the
    mutilation. For it isn’t the cutting of our bodies that makes us
    children of God; it is worshiping him with our spirits.” -Phil 3:2-3

    “But each of you should remain in the place in life that the Lord has
    given you. Stay as you were when God chose you. Was a man already
    circumcised [Old Covenant] when God chose him? Then he should not become
    uncircumcised. Was he uncircumcised [New Covenant] when God chose him?
    Then he should not be circumcised. Being circumcised means nothing.
    Being uncircumcised means nothing. Doing what God commands is what
    counts.” -1 Cor. 7:17-19

    • Eugene Knowen


  • nanispyder

    Thank you for your insight into this family and the other families that follow these teachings.

  • forKnowledge

    As someone who comes from a very different background, I find your blog very interesting. And I understand your point about feeling compassion towards the (younger) Duggar kids.
    However, I don’t feel charitable at all when it comes to the parents.

    Even if they started out young and naive, they’re now adults who have caused considerable harm to their kids, but also to the general public by propagating hateful ideas under all those smiles. And the older kids (e.g. Josh and the FRC) are perpetuating the cycle of abuse and bigotry. So, sorry, but I really can’t give them a pass!

    • I don’t give them a pass per se, but I do grieve for them. Michelle Duggar got married when she was 17, married a controlling man, and has left her house few days since then. She has abused her ki, but all things consiere, in different circumstances, she could have been me. And I agree. This doesn’t give them a pass, and they are accountable for their actions, an should pay for it (especially covering up sexual abuse– that’s evil).

      • forKnowledge

        Lana, thanks for your kind reply!

        I hadn’t seen things from your angle ie that you could have been her.
        I’m very happy for you and your family that you aren’t 🙂
        But your point really goes to show that it’s much easier to feel compassion towards someone when you can picture yourself walking in their shoes.

        Thanks for reminding me that the harder it is to do so, the more important it is to really try, and that compassion and accountability are distinct and non mutually exclusive.

        Best wishes, and pls keep writing!

  • waponiprincess

    This is all I could think of after reading #11 –

    • OH LOLZ awesome!


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